tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post6421412093380005279..comments2023-10-16T07:13:12.123-05:00Comments on A plain blog about politics: Pause, Then PoliticizeJonathan Bernsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-32444107088309669472013-12-12T20:12:14.254-06:002013-12-12T20:12:14.254-06:00I agree with Scott M. & JB on media reporting ...I agree with Scott M. & JB on media reporting with this addition--there is an emotional weight to the facts as they are first presented, and that holds even with an expected death, because the moment when it becomes real is unknown and often unexpected. The reporting of facts and of expressions of grief by people the media covers--from notables to the public--usually drives the political expressions down the page (so to speak) so it tends to look cheap and opportunistic. Anyway that's how it used to work before the twittering classes.<br /><br />I'd make a couple of distinctions however. When people--especially family and friends--attempt to express what the deceased stood for, or what he/she may be remembered for--this is expected discourse even as part of the funeral service of anyone. It is usually more about intent and possible future judgment, as "he died for his country" or "she stood up for working people." There is a grace period in which these sorts of assertions are made and uncontested--part of letting the person have one more say. Family and close associates are given authority in this.<br /><br />Obviously there are people who get it wrong and start arguments. But that discussion used to wait until the person was buried. It's probably complicated in our instantagram world by the length of the mourning period in South Africa, before Mandela's body is laid to rest. Captain Futurehttp://dreamingup.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-79934450900779111742013-12-12T15:40:21.403-06:002013-12-12T15:40:21.403-06:00JB, I know that your heart is in the right place. ...JB, I know that your heart is in the right place. But, respectfully, that's not okay.<br /><br />Grieving isn't always political. But for some people, it is. And that's okay. It's okay for the family of a fallen soldier to say that he or she died fighting for freedom, even if other mourners disagree. It's okay for those who disagree to say so--not at the service itself, but publicly and, yes, immediately. Does anyone ask us to check if any of our troops or foreign civilians died in the last six hours before giving commentary on a war? If not, then "Pause, then politicize" seems to be a norm reserved only for important deaths.<br /><br />Sometimes people grieve by continuing the fight. Even small fights. My grandmother was very clear who wasn't welcome at my grandfather's service. <br /><br />Any time I've ever seen someone asked to put politics aside after a funeral, they have fallen into one of two categories.<br /><br />1) Mourners who express their grief through further commitment to the same cause that drove the deceased.<br /><br />2) Victims of the deceased, refusing to silence (or "pause") their criticism.<br /><br />I don't think either of those groups should take etiquette criticism seriously. <br /><br />Specifically, I don't think the people pointing out opposition by (some) conservatives to Mandela are primarily concerned with scoring a political advantage. To them, the opposition to Mandela from some quarters of Western countries is a significant part of his story. (I'm not an expert, maybe you could tell a story where the ANC received unified support from Western governments from the beginning but somehow Mandela's story unfolds in exactly the same way. But I doubt it.) It's not a matter of how many points they gain in the next election, it's a matter of the truth itself. <br /><br />Mourning is about memory. Memory is often political. Therefore you can't exclude politics without excluding some authentic mourning.prefix-freenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-7761411347112392492013-12-12T14:47:09.047-06:002013-12-12T14:47:09.047-06:00The only issue I had was with politicians who has ...The only issue I had was with politicians who has spent their political lives opposing Mandela and propping up the apartheid regime, crying crocodile tears on his death and talking about how great he was. I thought that needed to be pushed back against with force, but only those cases.Tybaltnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-17732207099002537162013-12-12T12:04:26.551-06:002013-12-12T12:04:26.551-06:00Very much agree.
What bothered me about the Mande...Very much agree.<br /><br />What bothered me about the Mandela reaction was that it sounded (and I'm talking about twitter here, mainly) as if a whole bunch of liberals had been sitting on partisan points they had come up with back in May or June and just couldn't wait to deploy. Again, if it had been on the second day, no problem at all. Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-51145133416225440482013-12-12T11:48:20.567-06:002013-12-12T11:48:20.567-06:00Regarding the length of a pause, I would just add ...Regarding the length of a pause, I would just add that in the case of many sudden, unexpected events (unlike the death of Mandela, which is pretty straight forward), the press isn't going to get all the facts out in the first four or six hours. I would advise people to be cautious about taking an early, perhaps poorly thought-out stance based on facts that could soon turn out not to be true.Scott Monjenoreply@blogger.com