tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post6465590388093093240..comments2023-10-16T07:13:12.123-05:00Comments on A plain blog about politics: Kennedy Center Dishonors (2012 edition)Jonathan Bernsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-9931586322260452372012-10-10T00:09:31.230-05:002012-10-10T00:09:31.230-05:00I'd agree that Little Richard's songwritin...I'd agree that Little Richard's songwriting isn't to the level of either Robinson or Partridge -- but his performances were more historically important and influential than either of them. And I say that as a huge fan of both.<br /><br />As far as Partridge...it's the Kennedy Center Honors; I don't think he fits the profile, especially what with him being a Brit and all. But the fact that XTC isn't, apparently, considered qualified for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is to me one of the good indicators that I shouldn't take that institution at all seriously. <br />Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-69497164109010333912012-10-09T16:34:23.902-05:002012-10-09T16:34:23.902-05:00Andy Partridge is arguably one of the greatest pop...Andy Partridge is arguably one of the greatest pop songwriters ever, and duly DOES deserve to be honored as a silent favorite of thousands upon thousands of people. It is likely that he was influenced by people like Smokey Robinson and other brilliant songwriters.<br /><br />Little Richard, while very energetic and flamboyant, did not actually ever really express the same level of songwriting skill as did Robinson or Partridge. I found the phrasing about Andy Partridge a little disturbing, but such is life.Jeffrey P. Colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18141420913042313374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-25784075787576215602012-09-13T12:07:11.166-05:002012-09-13T12:07:11.166-05:00Oh, I'm aware Helm died... but so did George J...Oh, I'm aware Helm died... but so did George Jones. ;-)<br /><br />Heck, so did Letterman, long ago, and he's gettin' in. <br /><br />These are some really weird selections. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-39329064783168079952012-09-13T12:03:35.695-05:002012-09-13T12:03:35.695-05:00...influenced to be flamboyant... like Kiss and Al......influenced to be flamboyant... like Kiss and Alice Cooper were... but that's not landmark, as mentioned. Gary Glitter influenced the influential influencers... per your line of reasoning... so I guess he needs to be in there, too. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-61024474184190091512012-09-13T09:06:15.004-05:002012-09-13T09:06:15.004-05:00I'd say King (at least along with Goffin) is m...I'd say King (at least along with Goffin) is much more important (and better) as a songwriter than Diamond. But in that case you should give it to her and Goffin together (and do they even give these things to people based on songwriting alone?)<br /><br />As recording artists, I have a hard time not seeing Diamond as the more significant. King had one really important album and then kind of faded out, while Diamond was a very popular recording artist for a long time. Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-61884911500286869922012-09-13T01:04:21.088-05:002012-09-13T01:04:21.088-05:00King over Diamond in a walkover, I'd say. Rons...King over Diamond in a walkover, I'd say. Ronstadt should be considered for her interpretations.<br /><br />It's the absence of both women in the R&R HOF which strikes me as absolutely bizarre and which causes me to believe that there really is something to the conspiracy theory that if Jann Wenner signals "thumbs down" then artists are denied entrance.Linkmeisterhttp://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-39708908532595479172012-09-13T00:14:05.693-05:002012-09-13T00:14:05.693-05:00I'd argue that Diamond's post-peak has bee...I'd argue that Diamond's post-peak has been far more annoying than the others you mentioned...well, maybe not The Who. But suppose we set all that to zero (big plus for Diamond vs. King)...he really is a straight comp for King, only clearly not as good. I mean, IMO I'd take Will You Love Me Tomorrow over Diamond's whole career. I'd put exactly one Diamond song (I'm a Believer) in a combined top ten. There's nothing else in the neighborhood of Tomorrow, One Fine Day, The Loco-Motion, Natural Woman, I'm Into Something Good, Earth Move, and plenty more.<br /><br />Jay and the Americans? That's the best you have? Rolling Stones, no? Of course, she has The Beatles, Aretha, Dusty, and on and on. The Monkees too.<br /><br />FWIW, their chart success seems pretty similar to me. He clearly had a much more significant concert career, and then you have to figure out how to credit the large portion of her greatest songs that were co-written. Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-17080275493013885732012-09-12T23:28:12.191-05:002012-09-12T23:28:12.191-05:00Diamond has been recording since the 60s. Before h...Diamond has been recording since the 60s. Before he was a stage performer, he wrote songs that were recorded by the Monkees, Elvis Presley, Jay and the Americans, and others. He was one of the biggest recording artists in the 70s and early 80s. Yes, his music since the early 80s has largely sucked, but the same could pretty much be said for a lot of legendary artists, including Paul McCartney, Phil Collins, Stevie Wonder, and the Who (for whom Diamond once opened). And none of those guys ever co-starred with Sir Lawrence Olivier in a major motion picture.<br /><br />It's tricky to compare one artist to another -- I'd probably go with Diamond over Carole King, personally, but I could see an argument either way -- but he's as deserving as many and more deserving than most.Seth Maskethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17178036016555722068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-10540827891469335642012-09-12T18:57:42.499-05:002012-09-12T18:57:42.499-05:00Hey, Anonymous: Levon Helm died earlier this year....Hey, Anonymous: Levon Helm died earlier this year. Sorry.<br /><br />As for Letterman, I'm all for it. The early years of the late-night show on NBC were great fun and produced several cultural touchstones, such as the night when the camera rotated 360 degrees from the beginning to the end of the show (i.e., 6 degrees per minute) or the crazy quiz show/Chinese food delivery competition (one of the teams represented Hunan Wok University; don't recall the other). gottacooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-5350087171373338062012-09-12T18:47:30.681-05:002012-09-12T18:47:30.681-05:00The ones who weren't influenced by Little Rich...The ones who weren't influenced by Little Richard were influenced by someone who was influenced by him. purushanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-78497622848604398582012-09-12T16:42:18.696-05:002012-09-12T16:42:18.696-05:00Well no, that's just hyperbole. You can name ...Well no, that's just hyperbole. You can name tons of rock and roll/pop artists who weren't influenced by Little Richard. <br /><br />Heck, Gary Glitter influenced many, too. But like LR, it was his stage presence that was the difference maker, and it brought us to the aforementioned Kiss and Alice Cooper. Top acts to be sure, but more of a dead end historically speaking. Flamboyance isn't musically landmark ... it's just flamboyance. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-40105262369210288232012-09-12T15:36:19.235-05:002012-09-12T15:36:19.235-05:00I don't really agree with Bernstein's dism...I don't really agree with Bernstein's dismissal of Zeppelin, but Neil Diamond is indefensible.purushanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-9059722929703003092012-09-12T15:20:04.501-05:002012-09-12T15:20:04.501-05:00You really think you can make a case for Neil Diam...You really think you can make a case for Neil Diamond over Carole King? Good luck with that.Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-69846659224235947882012-09-12T15:18:38.107-05:002012-09-12T15:18:38.107-05:00Diana Ross's influence can be seen in every wa...Diana Ross's influence can be seen in every wanna be diva in the recording industry. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-58127394659957014092012-09-12T15:13:07.612-05:002012-09-12T15:13:07.612-05:00I hear you on Little Richard, but don't mess w...I hear you on Little Richard, but don't mess with Neil Diamond.Seth Maskethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17178036016555722068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-57926629430953696682012-09-12T14:50:46.648-05:002012-09-12T14:50:46.648-05:00Yeah Zeppelin I and II were full on testaments to ...Yeah Zeppelin I and II were full on testaments to American Blues and folk. "You Shook Me" and "I Can't Quit You Baby" were Willie Dixon covers, and "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" was by American folkie Anne Bredon.<br /><br />That said, I don't think they're the best choice.andrew longnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-87104873040251960492012-09-12T14:29:05.375-05:002012-09-12T14:29:05.375-05:00Thanks for this, and thanks for making it an annua...Thanks for this, and thanks for making it an annual event. I'll try to limit the length of my various rants:<br /><br />1 - If it's the Kennedy Center honoring American artists...THEN DON'T GIVE AWARDS TO THE BRITS. <br /><br />2 - With Little Richard it's not a question of opening up the Kennedy Center for male artists who wear lots of makeup, it's more that you can't name ANY 1960s (and later) rock and roll/pop artists who weren't influenced by Little Richard.massappealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883213166005005577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-34916272627476870322012-09-12T14:23:40.972-05:002012-09-12T14:23:40.972-05:00Led Zep would argue that they were just playing bl...Led Zep would argue that they were just playing blues, especially in the beginning, but I'm not gonna argue... <br /><br />I certainly agree about the Talking Heads.Bajsanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-10970023312923680582012-09-12T14:02:24.503-05:002012-09-12T14:02:24.503-05:00Actually, there is at least one pretty direct conn...Actually, there is at least one pretty direct connection between Led Zep and classic Americana... "When the levee breaks"... a throwback to the 1927 Mississippi floods, an event that reshaped this country, especially politically. You're going to find those floods referenced throughout music of that era, and Led Z reached back and found it. <br /><br />But yeah, it's supposed to be Americana, not foreigners. George Jones, Levon Helm... I can name dozens of Americans who are worthy here. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-50534632284413312972012-09-12T13:54:55.021-05:002012-09-12T13:54:55.021-05:00Well, if Little Richard gets in, then it opens it ...Well, if Little Richard gets in, then it opens it up for the whole Kiss and Alice Cooper genre. <br /><br />Not that this nonsense means anything. I mean, Letterman? Seriously? LETTERMAN? Those people are just trolling us now. More geeks at the public trough. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-67511544288438628342012-09-12T13:53:50.698-05:002012-09-12T13:53:50.698-05:00Mould probably wouldn't be a leading candidate...Mould probably wouldn't be a leading candidate, though Paul Westerberg might be a possibility at some point. Granted, their contributions are unequal--both led legendary bands and then went off on their own, but Mould generated at least half a dozen great solo records, while Westerberg's albums typically had three good tracks amidst the filler, until they started being completely unmemorable. Regardless, there's a certain mystique around the Replacements--I think they're an easier band to get sentimental/nostalgic over, though it's far from certain that they bested the Huskers creatively.<br /><br />Led Zep really is a baffling choice, though. Even with, say, the Rolling Stones, you have a group that is very deeply rooted in American mythos and musical styles, that adapts and comments on them. I love III and IV as much as anyone, but originally they were more a part of the Black Sabbath thing, which means that the American influence is indirect at best. Weird choice. If you're not going to honor groundbreaking American acts, at least honor foreign acts with a direct American influence. Right?<br /><br />I'm always in favor of Talking Heads getting honored, but it's going to be a cold day in hell before Byrne takes the stage with the rest of them.Levhttp://www.librarygrape.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-59185176609243561982012-09-12T13:38:49.318-05:002012-09-12T13:38:49.318-05:00Prince is an obvious pick. Plus we'd get to s...Prince is an obvious pick. Plus we'd get to see what he'd wear to the ceremony.Xenocrypthttp://xenocrypt.dailykos.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-69823295195312566842012-09-12T13:35:33.498-05:002012-09-12T13:35:33.498-05:00Fats is 84, and not in good health. He really need...Fats is 84, and not in good health. He really needs to get up there, pronto. <br /><br />Carole King isn't even in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, except in the songwriter's wing. But yes, she deserves this a thousand times before some British people get it. <br /><br />Phil Spector deserves it too, except for, you know, his little problem.TNhttp://www.debris-slide.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-4088089473839197432012-09-12T13:35:14.615-05:002012-09-12T13:35:14.615-05:00I agree, mostly, but I would argue that Smokey Rob...I agree, mostly, but I would argue that Smokey Robinson is probably, ultimately, a bigger influence than Little Richard. As fine a singer/songwriter/performer Mr. Penniman is, Robinson's influence over the entire mid-'60s Motown oeuvre was vast.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775174720796915716noreply@blogger.com