tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post7109319335994820886..comments2023-10-16T07:13:12.123-05:00Comments on A plain blog about politics: Friday Baseball PostJonathan Bernsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-34249065011730759042010-12-19T23:57:14.879-06:002010-12-19T23:57:14.879-06:00CSH,
McGwire SLGed 618 as a skinny rookie in his ...CSH,<br /><br />McGwire SLGed 618 as a skinny rookie in his 23 year old season. Obviously, he then did serious weight training, and we know that PEDs were part of that, but just as obviously we would expect McGwire to add strength and power in a world with no PEDs. I think it's a joke to think that we can sort any of that out. I'm not sure which season you're calling the "before" season...didn't Canseco say he was using in the late 1980s?Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-86212292846320601322010-12-18T21:31:57.579-06:002010-12-18T21:31:57.579-06:00Voters may choose to eliminate alleged PED years f...Voters may choose to eliminate alleged PED years from HOF resumes. In that case, they would cut off everything pre-1999 for Bonds and everything pre-~1996 for McGwire. That leaves Bonds with 400 HRs, 400 steals, 8 gold gloves in 9 years and a surefire, first-ballot unanimous entry into the Hall. According to Baseball-Reference.com, McGwire was most similar to Cecil Fielder and Dave Kingman before he allegedly hit the needle - hardly HOF material.<br /><br />Or voters may choose subjectively to handicap the PED years. Not only was Bonds already in the Hall, but his alleged PED years are actually quite a bit more impressive than McGwire's (admittedly also impressive) results. Bonds' prime alleged PED years were 2001-4; he was MVP in each of them, during which time he provided legitimacy to stat nerd acronyms such as WAR, WPA, REW, OPS+, and who knows what else, in leading them all by stupendous margins. Bonds' alleged PED run was a stat geek's dream.<br /><br />That said, my view is that McGwire makes it anyway, because while voters may wish to make subjective parsings for Bonds, McGwire (or more recently, Jose Bautista), its guys like A-Rod who are impossible to adjust, so such voters will simply quit trying.CSHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-49196558254566316392010-12-18T09:35:09.723-06:002010-12-18T09:35:09.723-06:00Colby,
Of course, if Bonds really does go to jail...Colby,<br /><br />Of course, if Bonds really does go to jail, they may wind up voting against him, at least in the short term. Same with Clemens. <br /><br />But you're severely underrating Mark McGwire. Yes, it was a short career, but still there's no one remotely of his accomplishments who isn't in the HOF.Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-70299100538195035432010-12-18T09:27:49.229-06:002010-12-18T09:27:49.229-06:00I agree with you, JB, and I'd add in another r...I agree with you, JB, and I'd add in another reason: no one seems to think the Hall can keep Bonds out, and if Bonds is in, than the reasoning to keep the other PEDdlers out goes up in smoke.<br /><br />For example: I'm a Cardinals fan who was positively ELECTRIFIED by Mark McGwire. BUT I don't want him in the Hall. Mostly because there's just too much baggage, I don't want to hear all the stories again.<br /><br />HOWEVER. If Bonds gets in, I'll DEMAND that McGwire gets in, too.* Granted, my demands are worth precisely nothing, but this is about my THINKING, not my actual power.<br /><br />So that's the rub. Once one's in- and by all indications, one IS in, and he's the one most associated with the scandal- you've got to let them all in.<br /><br />And that's fine, of course. While it sounds nice to have a "character" element in the Hall, the fact is, we haven't yet (and plenty of HOFers would fail that test). And hell, I don't want to leave it up to sportswriters' subjective idea of character.<br /><br />*- Actually, maybe not. I could be convinced that McGwire was too "one dimensional". But still, 500 Home Runs, man.Colbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14262426400735202537noreply@blogger.com