tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post360434761759500743..comments2023-10-16T07:13:12.123-05:00Comments on A plain blog about politics: The Most Useless Word AroundJonathan Bernsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-17815248629108036672012-05-31T08:33:15.531-05:002012-05-31T08:33:15.531-05:00Well, 13 years (1999) and four presidential electi...Well, 13 years (1999) and four presidential election cycles...sure. They've been around as an organization exactly as long as Rove has been around (as a national player), and everyone calls him establishment.Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-4943830371207166752012-05-31T06:26:57.872-05:002012-05-31T06:26:57.872-05:00The Club for Growth "has been around since th...The Club for Growth "has been around since the turn of the century"--you mean for eleven years? Is that really long enough to be considered "establishment"?Lawrence Fechtenbergernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-10159906104341884882012-05-30T22:33:22.426-05:002012-05-30T22:33:22.426-05:00Really? You thought a little thing like context wo...Really? You thought a little thing like context would stop my snark?<br /><br />tsk tsk tskMatt Jarvisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-3616135644257319972012-05-30T21:55:28.059-05:002012-05-30T21:55:28.059-05:00Dr. B,
I was hoping you'd raise this topic ag...Dr. B,<br /><br />I was hoping you'd raise this topic again. I wanted to quote to you from Caro's recent book (p. 297 for those of you following along at home). He's relying here in part on the text of a Life magazine article about the Bobby Baker case:<br /><br />'[T]he senate was controlled "rigidly" by a small group that was its "Establishment," and "In a very real sense the ... Establishment is the personal creation of Lyndon Baines Johnson, who from the day he took over as majority leader until he went to the Vice Presidency, ruled it like an absolute monarch....' <br /><br /><br />That seems to me a pretty straightforward and clear use of the term 'establishment' to mean a specific coterie of persons with strong ties to leadership, but not limited to elected members of congress. <br /><br />Further, there were elected officials clearly outside this establishment. On p. 288, we find '...others, even Wayne Morse of Oregon, usually as far outside the Senate establishment as [John J.] Williams, tried to defend the eager little man who had done them all so many favors.' <br /><br />It would see here we have a pretty clear definition of what the establishment means in this context, and strong examples of persons in and out. Would you submit that the term is perhaps not worthless or ineffectual, but perhaps outdated?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-31212168596306558932012-05-30T20:40:23.434-05:002012-05-30T20:40:23.434-05:00In some cases, it could be a code word for "r...In some cases, it could be a code word for "reasonable."Scott Monjenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-36671450204641222882012-05-30T20:22:30.290-05:002012-05-30T20:22:30.290-05:00Why are you so confused? "Establishment"...Why are you so confused? "Establishment" means the same thing as "elite."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-77822121429649571192012-05-30T18:40:18.923-05:002012-05-30T18:40:18.923-05:00That's why I put the damn qualification in the...That's why I put the damn qualification in the first paragraph, to avoid Jarvis doing this. I have failed.Jonathan Bernsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-71907782693762576522012-05-30T17:36:43.080-05:002012-05-30T17:36:43.080-05:00I disagree. Antidisestablishmentarianism is the mo...I disagree. Antidisestablishmentarianism is the most useless word around. It's very long, and very, very, very dated.<br /><br />I can use establishment cogently in many sentences. "This establishment served food that caused me intestinal distress."Matt Jarvisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-60628006753615000592012-05-30T16:55:10.480-05:002012-05-30T16:55:10.480-05:00True. In-state, the establishment candidate is the...True. In-state, the establishment candidate is the one backed by the Governor's machine, and that's Dewhurst. <br /><br />I think a good rule of thumb is that the establishment candidate is the one members of the instate party network would be afraid to oppose, for fear of losing status in the party.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16387816156204378075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-7123341929642268612012-05-30T16:49:52.110-05:002012-05-30T16:49:52.110-05:00Yeah and not only does it tell us nothing about wh...Yeah and not only does it tell us nothing about whats going on, it obscures other important aspects of the factual nature of the story by turning it into arguments about whose in the political or policy "in crowd". Look why not talk about how Romney's embracing of Bolton/Rumsfeld style neo-conservatism is worrying GOP foreign policy old hands like Snowcroft and Kissinger. That's what I think is important, especially in terms of Romney's sabre rattling towards Russia or edging towards embracing the idea of a unilateral and open ended commitment to military intervention in a civil war in the Middle East. When journalist embrace the "establishment" paradigm (yes I finally got to use that word in a blog post!) it obscures important policy differences as well as a politician's overall approach to politics.longwalkdownlyndalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173899547449318257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-67280105376338258532012-05-30T16:44:08.185-05:002012-05-30T16:44:08.185-05:00I have always totally agreed with your estimation ...I have always totally agreed with your estimation of the term 'establishment', but in this case, there is a specific difference between the two candidates. Dewhurst has served in Texas elected office for 14 years, winning 4 statewide elections, while Cruz has only served 5 years as Solicitor General, an appointed office, and has never run for elective office before.andrew longnoreply@blogger.com