tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post5980266105252533405..comments2023-10-16T07:13:12.123-05:00Comments on A plain blog about politics: Sad News on TortureJonathan Bernsteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15931039630306253241noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-1691282333419693722010-06-07T11:46:44.595-05:002010-06-07T11:46:44.595-05:00If it meant saving thousands, hundreds, or even a ...If it meant saving thousands, hundreds, or even a few people's lives, I would have no problem torturing a known terrorist, preferably on pay-per-view so as to discourage future misbehavior and pay down the deficit in the process; my argument is consequentialist: people being tortured will say whatever it takes to stop being tortured; their confessions are notoriously unreliable, and relying on their information gives them the opportunity to deceive us! Furthermore, torturing people turns off our allies and neutral parties from supporting what would otherwise be the clear "good guy". Finally, the idea that we've probably tortured innocent people is inexcusable and destined to create more problems in the long-run.<br /><br />http://www.theinductive.com/blog/2010/4/5/this-is-america-and-we-dont-torture.htmlChristopher Carrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13170009218441760298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-89281640366557688492010-06-06T18:59:38.029-05:002010-06-06T18:59:38.029-05:00JzB, disgust and sadness both seem appropriate. Ou...JzB, disgust and sadness both seem appropriate. Our nation was tarnished by slavery, and following that a century of racial apartheid. The civil rights movement washed away some of the stain, but want do we do?. Too much goodness, I guess. As a nation we have our virtues, being humane is not prominent among them.tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13145639900234999261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-65252577285232217232010-06-06T16:37:09.192-05:002010-06-06T16:37:09.192-05:00I rather like Sullivan - from what I have seen, he...I rather like Sullivan - from what I have seen, he is a person of integrity. I cannot force myself to wade through his letter, though. Sullivan has a way of getting things profoundly, and at times, inexplicably wrong, and there is so much wrongitude in his first few paragraphs.<br /><br />Frex:<br /><i>I also agree with the guiding principle of the war you proclaimed from the start: that expanding democracy and human rights is indispensable in the long-term fight against jihadism. And I believe, as you do, that a foreign policy that does not understand the universal yearning for individual freedom and dignity is not a recognizably American foreign policy. </i><br /><br />This is a fatuous blend of naivety and right wing bull. They fight us in the middle-east because the west has been mucking with them for a thousand years, and with particular greed and malice since Churchill invented the make-believe country of Iraq in the mid-20's with a line drawn on a map.<br /><br />tom, above, is right. This is sad. Seems like James nailed it as well. If torture becomes official and accepted U. S. policy it is the end of whatever idea America might have once had. <br /><br />I am deeply disgusted that this issue can even be seriously discussed.<br /><br />Lo siento,<br />JzBJazzbumpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07337490817307473659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-51208494374761949632010-06-06T16:14:58.191-05:002010-06-06T16:14:58.191-05:00It has been clear, crystal clear, that George W Bu...It has been clear, crystal clear, that George W Bush has no kernel of decency to which one can appeal ever since his days as Governor of Texas. Anyone who watched how very much he relished the life and death power he held over prisoners on Texas' Death Row knew that elevating this despicable, sadistic man to greater power would come to no good. Anyone who noticed his complete indifference to the legal process and laws governing his state and the United States should not be surprised now that we see that the man has not a shred of decency nor respect for our foundation of government, and he <i>never</i> has.<br /><br />And too, I have a hard time believing that any thinking conservative did not know this about him going in. <br /><br /><br />What say, Jonathan, about Bush's performance as Governor? Didn't that inform his future as a rogue President?Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6926413038778731189.post-49661436570480156582010-06-06T15:19:44.069-05:002010-06-06T15:19:44.069-05:00Sullivan's letter to Bush was eloquent and hea...Sullivan's letter to Bush was eloquent and heartfelt. I suspect sad is what he is feeling as it becomes clear GWB has no kernel of decency to which one can appeal.<br /><br />Sullivan's earlier misplaced confidence in Bush and Cheney is also sad, sad because a loss of respect and confidence is a loss worth mourning.<br /><br />I agree the letter was not sad, but sadness is a proper response to the loss of a last hope that GWB would in the end distinguish himself and prevent our recent descent into torture from becoming an established partisan issue.tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13145639900234999261noreply@blogger.com